全球法律精英对话第三期 | 喜马拉雅段然：企业法务体系构建及商业价值赋能

喜马拉雅法务的角色定位

The Role of XIMALAYA Legal

（一）战略协同部门：成为管理层的法律建议提供者，商业战略决策层的核心成员

首先，在整体工作思路上，我们会跟随公司的战略。具体表现为，法务参与到每个部门的战略拆解。我对法务部的同学有一个最基本的要求：每一个人去支撑一条业务BP线。

（二）赋能服务：将法律建立在业务中。针对业务需求给出法律分析，对业务进行运营辅助和纠纷处理

我们特别强调赋能服务，将法律建立在业务中，针对业务需求给出法律分析，对业务进行运营辅助和纠纷处理。

我们法务部每年处理的80% 以上的事务都和著作权相关，因此我们在著作权方面会进行很多培训，以及各类同行的交流。

（三）底线防控：有预期、有防范、有应对， 让风险控制在相对可承受范围

我们不太希望自己是一个后置式的法务。所以我会让法务同学每周都一定要参加业务的周会，在初期就发现问题。业务可能难以发现自己所谈内容的潜在法律问题，比如，业务说到要进行某个品牌活动，并且这个活动将作为未来的固定项目。这时我们法务就会想到，要进行品牌保护，要注册商标等。

Strategic Coordination Department: Become the legal advice provider of management and the core member of the business strategy decision-making level.

First of all, we will follow the strategy in the overall working ideas The concrete performance is that the legal affairs participate in the strategic dismantling of each department I have a basic requirement for my classmates in the legal department: everyone supports a business BP line.

Empowering services: establishing laws in business According to the business requirements, the law is given to assist and deal with the business operation.

We especially emphasize that enabling services establish laws in business, give laws according to business needs, and assist and handle business operations

Our legal department deals with more than 80% of the affairs every year related to copyright, so we will conduct a lot of training and various peer exchanges in copyright.

Bottom line prevention and control: There are expectations, prevention and response to control risks in a relatively affordable range.

We don't want to be a post-legal. Therefore, I will make the legal students must attend the business weekly meeting every week and find out the problems at the early stage It may be difficult for a business to find out the potential legal problems of what it is talking about. For example, the business is talking about a brand activity and this activity will be a fixed project in the future At this time, our legal affairs will think of brand protection and trademark registration.

处理好与“客户”的关系

Handle the Relationship with "Customers"

（一）法商思维

我们一直强调法商思维。我们要懂业务的商业逻辑、经营的本质、了解行业环境，站在投资者、决策者角度去思考。这样，我们才能作为法律中间人，给出判断，帮助决策。

我们在和律所以及其他合作方的合作过程中发现一个问题，就是大家只会很简单地提示风险，而对风险的后续回避和预防工作还不够。而我们要求法务们利用专业知识处理业务合规、合同、诉讼、知识产权管理等事务，明确回应问题的风险点在哪里，在当前的大商业环境下是否可以实行？

我们提示风险的目的，是让业务、BP不要再犯此类问题。不是只提示风险，让业务自行进行确认，在问题出现后把责任全部归属于业务，这种逻辑在喜马拉雅是不ok的。

（二）带着解决方案说NO

我们要求法务带着解决方案说no。优秀的法务，不是能揭示所有风险的人，而是能揭示风险，并能提供具有实操解决方案的人。特别是在互联网公司，业务要达成的方案，可能在他的认知路径上存在法律风险，我们需要为其能达到业务目的构建风险较小或者可承受风险下的新路径，以赋能服务业务的发展，所以解决方案是关键。

（三）权衡风险与收益：深耕业务，与业务良性循环、互相成就

在我最早来喜马拉雅的时候，我们在平台上朗读一本小说，到底归属于哪个权利，还没有明确的规则，各个法院的判决都不一样。在这样的基础上，我们就会去平衡风险与收益。特别是我们的用户中有大量的创作者，他们对于法律的了解程度不深，很难做到同频沟通。在这样的情况下，我们需要深入浅出的给予我们创作者以引导，并且在获取版权的策略上以“用户为中心”去解决一些生态的需求。具体到合同应该怎么写？怎样既法言法语，又让对方能够理解？我们会特别强调以下三个基本要求。

Legal business thinking

We have always emphasized legal business thinking We should understand the business logic of business, the essence of business, understand the industry and think from the perspective of investors and decision makers In this way, we can give judgments to help make decisions as legal intermediaries

One of the problems we have found in our work with law firms and other partners is that people only simply suggest risks, but the follow-up avoidance and prevention of risks are not enough And we ask lawyers to use their professional knowledge to deal with business compliance, contract litigation, intellectual property management and other affairs. Where are the risk points of clearly responding to problems? Can it be implemented under the current big business?

The purpose of our risk warning is to prevent business BP from repeating such problems It is not just to prompt the risk and let the business confirm itself. After the problem arises, the logic of attributing all the responsibilities to the business is not ok in XIMALAYA.

Say NO with a solution

We ask the legal officer to say no with the solution A good lawyer is not a person who can reveal all risks, but a person who can reveal risks and provide practical solutions In particular, the solution to be achieved in the Internet business may have legal risks in its cognitive path. We need to build a new path with less risks or tolerable risks to empower the service business, so the solution is the key.

Weighing risks and benefits: Deeply cultivating business and a virtuous circle of business achieve each other

When I first came to the XIMALAYA, we read a novel on the platform. Which right it belongs to? There are no clear rules, and each judgment is different On this basis, we will balance risks and benefits In particular, there are a large number of creators among our users. They don't know the law deeply, and it is difficult to communicate with the same frequency Under such circumstances, we need to give our creators guidance in a simple way and take "user-centered" in the strategy of obtaining copyright to solve some ecological needs How should the contract be written specifically? How to speak French and make the other party understand it? We will emphasize the following three basic requirements in particular.

“一条龙经理”

"One-stop Manager"

我们内部经常说，多头负责相当于没有人负责，因此我们为每一个项目指配了一名负责人。

负责人需要关注所负责业务发展过程的每一步。举个例子，比如我会要求我们法务的同学去工厂看生产环节，走进门店看销售环节，当一天的产品客服。这样，就能够发现问题点。这是作为这个产品线的法务支撑，应该要了解的事情。

如果法务就在办公室苦想，是难有结果的。比如今天要采买一个零件，你可能永远不会预判到可能芯片涉及到的汇率问题、垄断问题，也绝对不会想到用户们在知识产权、著作权的认知层面与我们是有多么大的差异。曾经就有用户来投诉说：“我在新华书店买了本书，我怎么就不能在平台上读？我怎么就没有这本书的版权？”

因此，我们鼓励、希望我们的法务小伙伴去关注业务发展过程的每一步，体验它的每一步，再去做结论。

We often say internally that having many people in charge is the same as having no one in charge, so we assign one person in charge to each project.

The person in charge needs to pay attention to every step of the business he is responsible for For example, I will ask our legal classmates to go to the factory to see the production link, walk into the store to see the sales link, and be a product customer service for one day In this way, we can find the problem points This is something that should be understood as the legal support of this product line

It's hard to get results if the legal officer is thinking hard in the office For example, if you want to buy a part today, you may never predict the exchange rate problem involved in the chip, and you will never think how different users are from us in terms of intellectual property and copyright cognition Some users once complained, "I bought a book in Xinhua Bookstore, why can't I read it on the platform? Why don't I have the copyright of this book?"

Therefore, we encourage our legal partners to pay attention to every step of the business, experience every step of it and then make a conclusion

互联网公司是看数据的，我们法务有一个要求也要用数据说话，比如提高法务部的合同审核效率。要怎么利用数据来提高合同审核的效率呢？我们特别强调小伙伴，要通过业务过程中对合同的反复使用情况，来进行季度复盘。通过分析合同条款的使用情况：哪些合同、哪个条款总是被挑战？针对这些条款，我们就要考虑进行主动修改了。其他，我们还看业务的数据。相比于在蓬勃发展的业务，我们对在萎缩中的业务的法律支撑是不一样的。另外，我们还要求透过现象看本质数据，合同数量增多，不一定是营收好。需要透过现象看回款情况、坏账情况等。

且，我们要站在更加客观的角度看到业务的不同情况，我们通过整理、复盘签约回款情况，就会发现，我们广告投放业务的客户类型不同，在回款上也有一些不同的规律。因此就需要我们的法务小伙伴根据不同的客户情况来进行合同回款的不同风控策略，做到效率与风险控制的平衡。同时，我们会和财务对现金流数据，分析在什么样的情况下合同可以过。

以上就是我们要求法务一定要去看数据的原因，希望所有法务同学在审核合同的时候，不是吹毛求疵地想出一份完美无瑕的合同，却发现各类条款难以实现，发现有了签约困难。而是希望大家能够适应每一个类型的客户，相对高效合理地对出具合同。

The Internet is to look at data. Our legal affairs have a requirement to speak with data, such as improving the efficiency of contract review of the legal department How to use data to improve the efficiency of contract review? We especially emphasize that small partners should make quarterly resumption through repeated use of contracts in business Use of contract terms: Which contracts and which terms are always challenged? In view of these clauses, we will consider taking the initiative to amend them Others we also look at business data Our legal support for a shrinking business is different from that for a booming business. In addition, we also require to look at the essential data through the phenomenon, and the increase in the number of contracts does not necessarily mean that the revenue is good. We need to look through the phenomenon to see the payback situation, bad debt situation, etc.

And, we have to stand in a more objective point of view to see the different situations of the business, we through the collation and review of the contractual payback situation, we will find that the different types of customers in our advertising business, there are some different patterns in the payback. Therefore, we need our legal partners to carry out different wind control strategies for contracted paybacks according to different customer situations, so as to achieve a balance between efficiency and risk control. At the same time, we will work with finance on cash flow data to analyse under what circumstances the contract can pass.

The above is why we ask the legal department to look at the data. I hope that all the legal students will not find fault when reviewing the contract, but find that all kinds of clauses are difficult to achieve and find that it is difficult to sign the contract But I hope everyone can adapt to each type of customer and issue contracts relatively efficiently and reasonably.

我们比较强调扁平化的分工。

在诉讼板块，我们会对案件做一些区分，哪些案件放在外部律所，哪些案件放在我们自己手上，什么样的案件一定要去打？这就要求我们的法务同学理解公司战略。在互联网企业普遍呈现快节奏的环境下，我们会根据公司的发展做一些诉讼策略的调整。

在业务板块，因为我们有特别多的业务，我们会要求负责这个业务的法务同事要特别深入到这个业务部门。甚至可以说，不参加法务的周会，也不可以不参加业务的周会。本意也就是希望去更了解业务。

在合规板块，因为我们是个强监管下的企业，并有着内容安全、意识形态方面的问题。所以我们成立了合规团队去处理我们这方面的业务。

We emphasise a flat division of labour.

In the litigation segment, we make some distinctions between cases, which cases are placed in external law firms and which cases are placed in our own hands, and what kind of cases must be fought? This requires our legal students to understand the company's strategy. In the fast-paced environment of Internet companies in general, we will make some adjustments to the litigation strategy according to the development of the company.

In the business segment, as we have a particularly large number of businesses, we will require the legal colleague responsible for this business to be particularly deeply involved in this business unit. It can even be said that it is not possible not to attend the weekly meeting of the legal department or the weekly meeting of the business. The intention is to understand the business better.

In the compliance segment, because we are a strongly regulated business and have content security, ideological issues. So we have set up a compliance team to handle this aspect of our business.

职能建设方面，我们法务基本上是做模块化的风险控制和管理，以及决策支持。理解业务、经营的本质、了解行业环境，站在投资者、决策者角度去思考。

其次，我们会做一些系统的平台化。

公司现在大概有几千个商标，全年大概会有几万件著作权作品产生，法务大概80%的案件和著作权相关。所以我们法务是基于一个数据系统进行内部管理的。包括大家的审核效率、进行了哪些操作，全部都是可数据化、可视化分析的。这样做，能够用一个相对公正公平的方式呈现工作成果，也方便内部管理。

还有一个是法务知识库。我们的知识库基本上分成两大类。一类是知识产权系统，一类是法务知识库。以及借助企业技术优势，我们可以针对全公司内部进行官宣、开展各类培训。

In terms of function building, our legal affairs basically do modular risk control and management, as well as decision-making support. We understand the nature of business and operation, understand the industry environment, and think from the perspective of investors and decision makers.

Secondly, we will do some system platformization.

Now there are probably thousands of trademarks, and tens of thousands of copyrighted works will be produced throughout the year. About 80% of legal cases are related to copyright Therefore, our legal affairs are based on a data system for internal management Including what operations have been carried out for everyone's audit efficiency, all of them are digitized and visualized Doing so can present the work results in a relatively fair and equitable way, and it is also convenient for internal management.

There is also a legal knowledge base Our knowledge base is basically divided into two categories One is intellectual property system and the other is legal knowledge base And with the help of the technological advantages of enterprises, we can carry out various trainings for the whole internal official publicity.

最后，喜马拉雅法务部有一个宏愿：希望每个人都能做自己的GC。

第一是能力培养。在业务交给你负责后，就相信并充分去支持你。但业务负责人也要对每一件事情负责。举个反例，负责人不能说：“我把诉讼的事情都包给诉讼组了，就和我没关系了。”你还需要面对来自上级、老板的考核。因此，自己作为业务的第一负责人，必须尽可能考虑到业务线的所有事情。法务的工作也一样。

第二是信息的流通和传承。尤其是业务线产生交叉时，信息的流通特别重要。

我们有明确的晋升通道。我们的晋升规则也比较有互联网特色。员工达到什么级别需要对应什么样的要求，到什么样的情况下可以申请晋升，是相对明确的。

Finally, the Himalayan Ministry of Justice has a big wish: I hope everyone can do their own GC.

The first is ability training Believe and fully support you after the business is handed over to you But the person in charge of the business is also responsible for everything Take a counterexample. The person in charge can't say, "I have nothing to do with me if I have contracted all the litigation matters to the litigation team." You also need to face the assessment from the superior boss Therefore, as the first person in charge of the business, you must consider everything in the business line as much as possible The legal work is the same.

The second is the circulation and inheritance of information Especially when the lines of business intersect, the flow of information is particularly important.

We have a clear promotion path Our promotion rules are also more interconnected It is relatively clear what level employees reach, what requirements they need to correspond to and under what circumstances they can apply for promotion.